Most Significant Groups in US History

[Matt F]

gabriellew said:

Hi Matt F I disagree with you, abolitionists were very important people in history. They were the first white and black people to stand up against slavery. Abolitionists helped many slaves learn how to read and write so that they could esape to freedom by using the Underground Railroad. No, blacks weren't immediately freed but abolitionists were the first to speak out against something that was widely accepted. This was a huge leap forward for society. They told people how slavery was evil, worng, and un Christian like. This scared many people causing some people to free their slaves due to religious reasons. Their are many important abolishinsts such as Harriet Tubman, William Lloyd Garrison, Wendell Phillips, Soujourner Truth and more.

Gabrielle- I see what you are saying but this is a simulation of the MOST significant people in American history. Yeah, this group took a step towards equality, but there were a lot more steps that had to be taken and the struggle is even living on today. There were plenty of groups that had immediate impacts on our country. You can't possibly tell me that a group that "took a step" should be considered more significant then a group that revolutionized an idea or made our country better, quickly.

[Juliet T.]

Coby-

Did you know that if you extend the Mason Dixon Line east, it runs through the southern part of New Jersey? Its influence has had a profound effect on our state's history.

[meghanav]

lbrett90 said:

meghana-
Were utopians really successful in spreading their culture though? what elements of utopianism is present in our world today

This was a good question but it was from a really long time ago (page 9) sorry i didn't answer it.

At the time they were at their height (19th century) they were somewhat successful in spreading their ideas. Many people wanted to live in an ideal community. Throughout the nineteenth century there were over a hundred communitites and more than one hundred thousand men women and children living in them. Just like a lot of the other groups in the simulation such as the Federalists, the group began declining. There are still some people who believe in Utopianism today.

[Amanda A.]

I have officially lost my mind...

Info #2 (re: Jacksonian Democracy)

Jackson held way too much power in office, and not only did he know it, he exploited that power to tick other people off. Jackson vetoed more bills in his two terms than did all his predecessors COMBINED. Also, during his presidency, there was the first mass resignation from a presidential cabinet. Clay and the other Whigs had the right idea to band together and try to keep Jackson from going any farther. Right before their eyes, the "fall of the government" was occurring.
Possibly, "The Corrupt Bargain" four years previously had the right idea. It's possible that Clay could have helped the government for four more years without Jackson (well, if anyone else BUT JQA was to be the next president)

[Nicole V.]

meghanav said:

lbrett90 said:

meghana-
Were utopians really successful in spreading their culture though? what elements of utopianism is present in our world today

This was a good question but it was from a really long time ago (page 9) sorry i didn't answer it.

At the time they were at their height (19th century) they were somewhat successful in spreading their ideas. Many people wanted to live in an ideal community. Throughout the nineteenth century there were over a hundred communitites and more than one hundred thousand men women and children living in them. Just like a lot of the other groups in the simulation such as the Federalists, the group began declining. There are still some people who believe in Utopianism today.

Meghana- I realize there may be a few Utopianists still around today, but i am going to have to disagree with you that they were at all influential in history. They may have simbolized a culture trend, but they had no lasting impact. This attempt at perfect societies dies very quickly. Within a few generations it was dead, and the world was back to the same way it was before these groups had even existed. I can see no proof that they impacted anything in history. (PS sorry for bashing your group)

[Margaret B.]

Third Info Post:

Mormons hold more power today than might be expected. With a membership of 12.5 million and growing(Some claim it is the fastest growing religion in the world), the LDS has many members in our government and military, and many members have made important contributions to our country.

Important Members:
Admiral Paul Yost Jr. --> retired commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard, four-star rank
General Robert C. Oaks --> four-star general in the U.S. Air Force
Mitt Romney --> conservative Massachusetts Governor, running for President in 2008
Brett Helquist --> illustrator of The Series of Unfortunate Events
Brian Crane --> Pickles cartoonist
Ed Catmull --> President of Disney Animation, Co-Founder of Pixar
Nolan D. Archibald --> CEO of Black and Decker
Dave Checketts --> Former owner of the New York Knicks and Madison Square Garden, current owner of Real Salt Lake
David Neeleman --> CEO of JetBlue Airways
Cynthia Garner --> first woman to appear on the cover of Fortune Magazine
Orson Scott Card --> author of Ender's Game

Some controversial Mormons include:
Butch Cassidy --> famous outlaw
"Wild Bill" Hickman --> ex-Mormon, accused of murder
Evan Mecham --> impeached Arizona Governor

As well as more than 70 national and international athletes, in such sports as auto-racing, baseball, basketball, boxing, football, golf, gymnastics, hockey, horse-racing, martial arts, rodeo, snowboarding, and wrestling.

Those names listed are only a few of hundreds of people who could claim national recognition for important medals, scientific research, artistic work, economic leadership (CEOs, Presidents, etc.), literary works, dance, acting, etc.

The LDS has a much greater impact on the way we live than we might like to admit. TWENTY-ONE American politicians currently in office are members of the LDS, and many of our favorite things were made or designed by Mormons. Indeed, Mormons are responsible for headphones, the arcade game Pong, Atari, odometers, hearing aids, transistor radio, the first artificial hearts, pedal steel guitars, disposable surgical masks, the first digital audio recording systems, and traffic lights.

Yes, the list seems daunting, but don't underestimate the power of the Mormons. They are active in the government (mostly as Conservative Republicans), hold many of the highest positions in our country's economy (numerous CEOS), and many are working in our country's best universities. Throughout all this, they are spreading their beliefs of being helpful and kind, and to never give up one's beliefs.

[Tali Cayemitte]

To Robbie U.

I agree with your post stating the immense contribution that Civil Rights Leaders have given in the development of America. I mean America is the "Melting Pot" of the world and it is because of these leaders that America is the America it is today.

[joy]

agold21 said:

joy said:

One last pitch for my group: the Confederates. Just to summarize everything, influence is impact, regardless of if it was good or just plain evil. That said, the Confederates owned slaves and so did people in the North. Slaves were crucial to the economy in the South that was dependent on the crops grown on plantations, rice, cotton, etc. The “freedom” of black slaves is what brought about the Civil War. Without the Confederacy, the Civil War, and the eventual emancipation of slaves would not have occurred.

JOY

Can it really be assumed that emancipation would not have occurred without the civil war? At some point the modernization of the country would have probably lead to the emancipation.

How is one to assume that emancipation would have occured without the civil war? No one, including abolistionists, were ready to accept emancipation. You are refering to modernization in terms of today, but we have to assume that the civil war never occurred. I think the civil war brought the issues of slavery to the public. Before that, slavery was not an issue in America, it was a way of life.

JOY

[Amanda A.]

Info #3 What happenned

Whigs were a close second to the Democrats for a long time, but finally won the presidential election with William Henry Harrison and the "Tippecanoe and Tyler too" slogan. Whigs did this to ape the Jacksonian Democrats' scheme of war heroes and the common man. Harrison was a veteran of the battle in Tippecanoe, and Tyler was just kind of... there. Harrison gave the Whigs the potential of turning the government around, but he... well... died after just a couple weeks in office. Tyler became the next president, where America realized that although Tyler was a Jackson-hater, that was all that he was. Essentialy, he was still a Democrat and had Demoracratic ideals. The Whigs had an "oops, we should have thought that out" moment, and their chance to directly change America was over. Tyler lived through the rest of the term, but the Whig Party was pretty much over.

[Tali Cayemitte]

To Matt F

I disagree with you...well... on almost everything you said contradicting Gabrielle's argument in which she stated that abolitionists should be considered as one of the most significant groups in Americna History. The "step" that abolitionists took was a catalyst that made it possible for many other groups to eventually revolutionize an idea. To undermine their influence because of the fact that the plight for equality is still going on is to ignore the immense influence that this group of people have had on the development of society in America.

[Margaret B.]

youngscribe1990 said:

In reference to Margaret B's theory about the Mormons--Do their beliefs transcend nationwide or just to one specific demographic?

Thalia -
Well, half of all Mormons do live in the United States. Also, 14% of all Mormons live in Utah, but because of easier transportation and the growing Mormon population, many are moving away. In fact, an LDS church was recently completed on Springfield Ave next to the new police station. Mormons are spreading themselves, and their beliefs, throughout the whole country, as you might've noticed by recent door to door visits from our new neighbors. Yes, Utah is the center of all Mormonism. It is also the place from which they expect Jesus to save the world after Armageddon. But they do not live exclusively in Utah. In fact, many Mormon politicians have been elected in other states, which shows how Mormonism is more accepted nationwide now.

[Amanda A.]

OK, I have to admit this simulation had a good idea, but it just didn't work. I honestly wished it could have, but it takes a LOT of time to read 52 pages, go back to keep track of everything, and by the time you have something to argue, that point has long been disussed 15 pages earlier. I'm sorry, but not everyone can go online every day for hours at a time. Maybe if we had a longer time period, two people per group, or the lack of SATs and HSPA testing, it would have gone more smoothly.
With that, here's my criteria

-Has to have genuinely changed America in some way.-
-Must have important/sig. leaders, BUT IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO HAVE FORMED/MAINTAINED W/OUT THEM!
- If it weren't for them, America would not be the same today
- It affected EVERYONE in America, not just a certian, specific part (Sorry Margaret, no Mormans)

and the last one that I'll explain...
- it has to be possible to explain to a 6-year-old. Through this, you're not taking the perspective of someone who is trying to memorize the entire history book or someone who thinks they know everything, but are just interested. The easier it is to describe the group to someone who knows NOTHING about the Constitution or political strategies or whatnot. This was brought along when my brother was sitting on my lap as I was reading the posts. He asked me what muckrakers were (he pronounced it mookrackers) and I explained how these people wrote about stuff to let people know what was going around in other parts of the country, but they wrote this mainly to convince their readers to start fighting and think in their own way. Now, I know this doesn't even come close to the Muckraker's real standing, but did Josh learn something? Yes. Kids don't understand the details, so the general picture should be sufficient enough to signify a change in America.

So long story short, if the main point of the group is too hard to define to someone who knows nothing about history without adding lots of details, it's not as important as a group that is easily defined.

[Margaret B.]

Criteria:

I will rank groups on how many of the following criteria they fulfill

1) They have been known nationwide since their founding
2) Some of their influence can be directly felt today
3) They have very many members
4) They are unique; For instance, I would not pick both Expansionists and Imperialists. They’re just too similar.
5) They have affected politics, economy, and culture
6) The group has power nationwide, not just in their place of origin or one specific area in the country
7) The group is currently prospering

[Hannah L.]

Michelle-

You mentioned certain sub groups or developments of the Socialist party such as the Socialist Labor Party and the American Socialist party. You also mentioned specific individuals like Eugene Debbs. Do you feel that any one specific branch or individual of the socialist party has been the one with the most impact on the party as a whole?

[Matt F]

talinanis said:

To Matt F

I disagree with you...well... on almost everything you said contradicting Gabrielle's argument in which she stated that abolitionists should be considered as one of the most significant groups in Americna History. The "step" that abolitionists took was a catalyst that made it possible for many other groups to eventually revolutionize an idea. To undermine their influence because of the fact that the plight for equality is still going on is to ignore the immense influence that this group of people have had on the development of society in America.

To Talisha
I disagree with you...well... on almost everything you said contradicting my argument in which I stated that abolitionists shouldn't be considered/aren't a significant group in American history. As I said before, they took a step in making things better, but all that they got were blacks back in slavery. I'm not at all saying that what they were trying to do wasn't a huge deal, but it didn't work, and when all was said and done, blacks were not treated the same way as whites. That is the bottom line.
They began an idea. But so did the first person to think up the idea of the computer, for example. And who was that? Who knows. It's the groups that make things happen that are the most significant. And hey, what do you know? Bill Gates is pretty significant now because he took that idea, and actually made it work.
Now, compared with the other 78 groups in this simulation, many of whom did make things happen in our country, abolitionists shouldn't stand a chance to be in the top 10. Bankers, imperialists, journalists, expansionists, educators, industrialists, traders, even immigrants all changed our country forever. Abolitionists tryed to, but didn't.

[Tali Cayemitte]

Info Post # 3

Some feminists take a holistic approach to politics, believing the saying of Martin Luther King Jr., "A threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." In that belief, some self-identified feminists support other movements such as the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement.Feminism has effected many changes in society, including women's suffrage, broad employment for women at more equitable wages, the right to initiate divorce proceedings and the introduction of "no fault" divorce, the right to obtain contraception and safe abortions, and the right to university education. Feminism also has had an important role in embracing new forms of religion. Neopagan religions especially tend to emphasize the importance of Goddess spirituality, and question what they regard as traditional religion's hostility to women and the sacred feminine. In particular, Dianic Wicca's origins lie within radical feminism. Among traditional religions, feminism has led to self examination, with reclaimed positive Christian and Islamic views and ideals of Mary, Islamic views of Fatima Zahra, and especially the Catholic belief in the Coredemptrix, as counterexamples.

[Hannah L.]

Margaret B.-

You discuss the fact that Mormans represent the "better half" of our country in terms of morals. However, in reading Under the Banner of Heaven I got the impression that many Mormans, particularly the leaders, had extreme restrictions on lifestyles or exteme views on how to live and God's message for them. For example, one man kills his sister-in-law and her newborn daughter because he felt he was called by God to do so Another man is forced to be exiled from his family and friends when he disagrees with something the leader of the church says. If anyone from the Morman community associates with him, they will suffer the same consequences. So, while Mormans in principle may have had a good basis in terms of morals, the extremities of the religion often make this group perform below the rest of the country.

[Hannah L.]

Matt-

You discuss journalists being an important group in terms of thier outreach to the nation, for example the WWI propaganda. However, if it is propaganda, isn't the information somewhat dishonest? Can you give some insight on the role of journalists in both honest and dishonest methods or forms of production?

[Beth M.]

talinanis said:

To Beth

It is blatantly clear the amount of influence that the United States Supreme Court Justices hold over the development of America. The Supreme Court is the highest court within the United States courts system and the powers allotted to the judicial branch of the government are vast.
However, I wonder how one judges which cases are more significant than others. In one of your posts , you stated that the most significant case was Marbury v. Madison. I was wondering how you arrived at this conclusion and whether or not there was a certain criteria you used to evaluate each case in developing your opinion.

I believe that Marbury v. Madison is among the most significant cases because it was the case that developed the theory of judicial review, meaning that the Supreme Court can declare any act of Congress unconstitutional. Without this vital decision, Congress could get away with many things and the Supreme Court would have no basis to determine a verdict in many other cases, if not all other cases. There really was no criteria i used in evalutating cases, I just thought that without this case, the other Supreme Court cases would never have been possible.

[Alex G.]

mjf11721 said:

agold21 said:

Info post 2
Throughout American history, there have been many prominent athletes, who have had great influence on American people. Some of these athletes include:

Mohammad Ali- Born Cassius Clay, however changed his name when he became a Muslim. He was crowned the sportsman of the century by Sports illustrated in 1999. He was the heavyweight champion of the world, as well as won an Olympic gold medal. Ali, since retiring, has become a great humanitarian, and was in 2005 given the presidential medal of freedom. According to the Mohammad Ali center website, "Since he retired from boxing, Ali has devoted himself to humanitarian endeavors around the globe. He is a devout Sunni Muslim, and travels the world over, lending his name and presence to hunger and poverty relief, supporting education efforts of all kinds, promoting adoption and encouraging people to respect and better understand one another. It is estimated that he has helped to provide more than 22 million meals to feed the hungry. Ali travels, on average, more than 200 days per year."

Babe Ruth- George Herman Ruth was born in 1895, and made his major league debut in 1914. In 1998, the sporting News called him the greatest baseball player ever. In 1936, Ruth was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame, as part of the first ever class. It could be argued that Ruth popularized, or even romanticized baseball, and really is attributable for making baseball as it is today.

Jesse Owens- Born in 1913, Owens was an American track and field athlete, who's claim to fame was winning gold during the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin. His win is seen as a way of Blacks, as well as Americans "sticking it" to Adolf Hitler, obviously a great racist. In 1976, he too was awarded the presidential medal of freedom, and though he died 10 years earlier of cancer, he was given the congressional gold medal in 1990 by George H.W. Bush.

Jim Thorpe- Born in 1888, Thorpe was a multi-sport athlete, who won Olympic medals as well as played football and baseball professionally. Thorpe, a Native American, was originally from Oklahoma, but moved to Pennsylvania, where he excelled at many sports. In the 1912 Olympics in Stockholm, he won two gold medals. Legend has it that when the king gave him his own prize, the king (Gustav V) said, "You, sir, are the greatest athlete in the world," to which Thorpe replied, "Thanks, King."

Babe Zaharias- A gold medal winner in the Olympics, Zaharias also excelled in many other sports. She was an All-American in Basketball, and though her real name was Mildred, acquired the name Babe after hitting five homers in a single game. In spite of this, Babe was best known as a golfer, as competed on the PGA tour, something that would not happen again for years to come.

Alex- I guess I have a similar question to Becca's, although I'll phrase it in a way that isn't as confusing. I agree with you that athletes are significant in the scheme of things. However, for this simulation, why do you believe that they are more significant than, say, imperialists or bankers or journalists, for example, who made our country into what we see it as, today?

Well, I can't say that Athletes are the reason that our country is the way it is today to the same extent as say, imperialists, as physically, they haven't made as much of a difference. However, I know, and I'm sure that you do too how important sports are. As I have said, athletes are often on the forefront of cultural reform, as is evident in the case of Jackie Robinson. In addition, from a social standpoint, I could easily argue that sports and athletes have made our country into what we see today. For example: I know that I have had extensive baseball conversations with you, and I'm sure this goes on everywhere. Sports are a major social topic. People constantly argue about sports with each other, and without athletes, people's social outlooks would be completely different.